Episode 7 – This Man is Helping Californians Survive the Insurance Crisis

Brian Davis 0:05
I’m so excited bill, to have you. Bill Saunders, from WJ Saunders iInsurance has gone from football coach to now insurance all star, making a huge impact in Simi Valley, being integral to our community. I’m excited to sit down with you and just hear more about your story and kind of where you came from, some of the challenges that you’ve overcome, and what’s next for W day Saunders insurance. So kind of take us back. Take us back before you got onto this entrepreneurial journey. Who was Bill Saunders back then, what, what was it that you were doing, and what was it that they got you to think, like, hey, you know what? Like, I want to get into insurance.

Bill Saunders 0:47
So, so very I’ve worked every single job you can possibly imagine. But, you know, back in the day, I was, you know, when I graduated from college, I was part of the University of football, University of Colorado football team, back in 96 2000 where I went to school, was working as a student assistant with the football team over there. Really liked football. Didn’t really like school as much as I should have. Did you

Brian Davis 1:15
grow up in a family of football fans or so something that you just kind of

Bill Saunders 1:19
yes and no? My so my uncle was actually he was the number one draft picked in the 78 college entry draft to the Canadian Football League. Interesting lineman. Wow, I didn’t even know that they had a Football League. Yeah, it’s different rules. It’s fun to follow, but it’s a lot crazier than what we have here in the United States. You only get three downs instead of four. Oh, my goodness, anybody in motion before the snap thing be headed towards the line of scrimmage? Wow. You can even score a point by kicking a kick out the back of the end zone. So, you know, there’s different ways to score and all that stuff. But yeah, he did that. You know, it was drafted in 78 and ended up playing through the 86 season. So at the time, I’m eight years old, I never got a chance to see him actually play football, he’d be mad at me if I didn’t tell you. He did score one touchdown in an all star game. Fell on a fumble in the end zone, and we got so excited. He threw the ball in the stands. So we don’t know whatever happened to the football, but he scored that touchdown. It counts. It counts. It counts. But he ended up coming down out of Canada, came to Stanford to get his MBA. And while he was there, he had reached out to the football office and said, hey, you know, if you need any help, you know, with coaching or anything like that, graduate assistant coaches weren’t really a thing back then, but he said, If I can help out, I’d love to yeah and Jack Elway, who was the coach at the time, John Elway’s dad said, Yeah, I’ll hire you. And so he came in as basically a graduate assistant, and he approached me, I think was the spring or summer of 1988 and said, How old were you? I would have been, I would have been nine. Nine years old. Okay. And he said, Hey, I’m working at Stanford the football team. Would you like to be a water boy? And I said, Oh, cool. What do I do? And he goes, Well, you’re gonna come to every, every home game, and you’ll help, you know, give the guys water, pick up the cups on the sideline, all that stuff. And I said, Hey, this sounds awesome. So I got to start watching football from the sideline of college football games, starting at nine years old. He left a couple years later. The equipment manager absolutely loved me. Wanted me to stay on, so they promoted me to what was called a ball boy, which is where now I’m getting the balls into the into the game and all that stuff. And you know, as an 11 12, year old kid, hanging out with the one football players is pretty cool, and I got to know some of them. That’s exciting fairly well. One of them is a guy by the name of Andy Sinclair, who I’ll I’ll circle back to in a minute, because it’s just crazy how full circle works. But did that all the way through high school, and then when it came time to go to college.

Brian Davis 3:48
So while, while you were doing that all the way through high school, was there other water boys and ball boys kind of coming up? Or was it just like, was it, it was me

Bill Saunders 3:56
there, they had other ball boys there and stuff like that. At one point, actually, a couple points in time, I had a couple of my buddies helped me out doing it. They thought, doing it. They thought was pretty cool. Okay, okay, awesome. But yeah, when it when time came for me to pick a college, I went in and was talking to the equipment manager, So where have you applied? I’m like, oh, Michigan, Oregon, Colorado, Sacramento, state’s my safe school. And he goes, Well, have you applied to Stanford? And I said, No, I don’t. I don’t, I don’t have the grades for Stanford. And he goes, Well, you better get an application in, because coach Willingham just wrote you a letter recommendation. And I went, Wow, oh, okay, so got the application put together, sent in, and of course, didn’t get in there. Otherwise this, this story would have a much different ending, but didn’t get in there because apparently my admission didn’t go to the right admissions counselor or whatever. So the equipment manager said, Well, where else are you looking I said, Colorado. And he said, Great, we’re gonna get you out to Colorado. I know the equipment guy out there. You’re gonna meet with them. We’ll have you meet with the coaches out there and all that. And so here I am a guy that you know broke my arm early on in life, never really got into you. Got into being able to play really good competitive football. How’d

Brian Davis 5:04
you break your arm? I fell off of

Bill Saunders 5:07
an iron railing when I was nine that first year, and literally, and I don’t know for video, but you can see my arms kind of elbowed out. So had a couple years of surgeries and re breaks of the arm to try to get it right and all that stuff so but when I went out to Colorado the first year I was there, and I was, you know, we made it all the way to the holiday ball. And so I’m, we’re down, we’re practicing. I’ll never forget this conversation. I was talking to our offensive line coach. I was working with the offensive line, doing some equipment type stuff, and I said, You know what Coach I’d like to walk on next year, you know, and see if I can make the team to play. And he goes, Oh, I think that’d be a great idea, you know. I think that you you definitely know the game, you know what’s going on, and we’ll see what happens. And I said, Okay, so

Brian Davis 5:54
how much, how much experience had you had actually playing only a couple of

Bill Saunders 5:58
years? Yeah, I didn’t really play in high school because I was, I was injured the whole time, so, but you’re, you’re around it. I’m around all the time, all the time, all the time mentally, mentally figuring it out, knowing what’s going on. So in the spring of two, sorry, of 1997 so my, you know, right, still, during my freshman year, right after the season it ended, the airline coach ended up leaving and going on to another school, and I’m like, okay, who’s coming in, who’s coming in, and ended up being a guy by the name of Tom cable. And he was, he was coming from Cal. He was a young coach. He was 33 years old. Had already done six years at Cal, came in, and so I went through the 97 season with him, you know, being his kind of guy and all that stuff. And at the end of the season, I went up to him and approached him the same way I had done with the previous guy, and I said, I’d really like to look at walking on. And he goes, why? And I said, because I want to get into this as a profession and coach. And he goes, You didn’t ask my question. Why do you want to play? And I said, Well, I think if I play, it gives me that experience, and that’ll look better on on resumes and stuff like that in the future. And he looks at me, he goes, Billy, how many games are you traveling to? And I said, I’m going to all the games right now. He goes, you realize that if you walk on, even if you were to make the team, you’re only going to the whole games, and that’s it. So you’ve got, you know, five, maybe six games a year, whereas now you’ve got 1112, games. So he goes, I’ll tell you what we’re going to do. I’m going to reach out to the equipment office right now, and we’re going to make you a student assistant. And you’re going to, you’re going to be with me. You’ll come to my meetings. You’re going to stay here in the summer, don’t go home, or in the summer, you’re going to stay here with me. We’re going to, we’re going to learn the game of football together. And he took me under his wing. That’s amazing. And it was awesome. It was awesome because here I am now, my jobs on game day are sitting up in the booth, scouting the defenses, knowing what’s coming, seeing what’s going to be, you know, seeing plays unfold before they even happen. It was just, you know, totally turned my mindset around, from watching the game of football as a fan to watching the game of football as a coach. So when I graduated, he had moved on. He was now the the head football coach at the University of Idaho. So the season ended. My senior year, I didn’t know what I was going to do. I came back to Colorado to coach a summer camp, and ended up picking up a job coaching at a high school in Durango, at Durango, Colorado, Southern Colorado, and did some high school football there. Two years later, I got a job coaching as a graduate assistant. Now it’s a thing, so I’m a graduate student coaching football at Minot State University. And if you don’t know where Minot is, it is in North Dakota. The question that always gets asked is, why not Minot? And the reason is, freezing. Is the reason? Because it was 68 below in the in the winter time there it was nasty, 52 miles south of Canadian border. That sounds fun, but it was great experience. Here I am now coaching. I’m coaching at an NAIA school, coaching some football. They had moved me to running backs, and I was doing really well there. And then I got an opportunity, through some of the coaches that I knew at Colorado to move back to southern Colorado to Adam state, and did two years coaching there with the offensive line, doing some special teams and stuff like that. Things ended there, as I do for most coaches, you get fired at least once in your life. And I got fired from there because the team didn’t perform as well as we thought that they should have. And so I ended up taking a job coaching at Santa Monica City College. So now I’m back coaching, you know, junior college football, having fun with it. Did that for a couple years, and then a buddy of mine.

Brian Davis 9:28
How did you get that opportunity? Well, somebody knew was just they had

Bill Saunders 9:32
posted it online, and I said, Look, here’s my experience, here my references, all that stuff. So they interviewed me, and they liked what I could do. And so they brought me out, what

Brian Davis 9:41
do you feel like? Really differentiated, you like, with that opportunity from any of the other candidates that might have been going for it. So

Bill Saunders 9:47
one was my willingness to move, move from looking forward to getting back to California. I grew up in California. I wanted to do that to, you know, I was willing to work for peanuts again, you know, you know, three or 4000 Dollars a year, and I would have to find a job to supplement that, which is the way that most of these coaching you know, everyone thinks, oh, coaches make a million dollars. Well, yeah, if you’re in the NFL, or if you’re a top, you know, division one coach, yeah. Otherwise, you’re not making much at all. You know, you’re making barely enough to survive, and a lot of times you have to supplement with other income, yeah.

Brian Davis 10:16
So it’s really the passion, it’s the passion, it’s the passion. So is it the passion for the the job? Is it the passion for this, the players? Is it the excitement of just being out there on the field? Is it like, what? What is it that driving thing? It’s,

Bill Saunders 10:30
it’s all of it, to be honest with you, I love the game. I love the chess aspect to it. You know, what are they going to do? I do this. They’re going to respond with this. How do I beat that response? And you know, you’re thinking two or three moves ahead, which makes it really which is funny, because I’m a terrible chess player too, but, but you know, in terms of football, I can, I can see what’s going to happen, and know how to set things up to make something happen. So did that for a couple years, and then when I was at Granada Hills, was there for a couple years. And at the time, when I moved to Granada Hills, I started, you know, doing some health insurance. And this is 2009 2010 and if anyone remembers 2009 2010 that’s when Obamacare was making it big.

Brian Davis 11:14
So how did that, how did that opportunity come up on your radar? Oh, the health insurance. Yeah.

Bill Saunders 11:19
So another funny story. So when I took the job, you know, when I moved back here to Santa Monica, I was living in the valley and coaching in Santa Monica, and the guy that hired me the office corner said, Oh, I know this guy that’s working in juvenile probation. I told you I had a million jobs. You know this guy in juvenile probation, he’ll be able to have you work nights and do that, which is fantastic. Then it doesn’t affect football at all, and go from there, something great. So I did the juvenile probation thing. Ended up moving to another juvenile probation place, and ended up getting laid off from there in 2009 and so I started, I’m like, so I’m out of a job knowing I need money, and 2009 The other thing people know is that we had a big recession going on there, and so I was applying everywhere for jobs, trying to find something because I’m just someone who cannot work. You cannot not work. I should say I got a you know, response for an ad like, Hey, come here for an interview at noon on a Monday and see what’s going on. Well, of course, I get to the interview late, so I’m already though this is bad, like showing up to interview late, not a good thing. And as I walk into the room, I see like, 30 people walking out. I’m like, Oh, they must have just had a sales meeting. So I go in, and I’m sitting down, and I’m, you know, listening to the guy, you know, ramble on about selling health insurance and this commission only job. And if you sell two policies a week, you’re gonna end up making 50 grand a year. So four policies a week, you’re making 100 grand a week and a year, and it’s going to be a great deal. And so I sat there. What I didn’t know at the time, but found out later, was I missed the part where it was all commissioned, and that if this wasn’t job for you, you walk out. And those were the 30 people leaving. So so I’m in a room with like, three or four other people ended up signing up that day to do it. So I’m like, hell, might as well give it a shot, see if I can make it work. Make

Brian Davis 13:03
it work. If you had been there and heard that, would you have been one of the 30 that left? You know, it’s

Bill Saunders 13:07
funny. I’ve had that conversation on my head and with other people about 100 times. I think in the end, I would have stayed, because I’m just that much of a, you know, a stubborn individual that says, hey, no, I can do this. So I did. I stayed and was selling health insurance. Obamacare was coming in, and the Obamacare thing affected our commissions tremendously.

Brian Davis 13:27
So how did, how did this deal work? What was your relationship with the guy that was pitching this deal? He

Bill Saunders 13:33
ended up being my boss. But it was just a random at the time. It was a random guy, you know, that was pitching this thing, and I’m like, You know what? I need to make money. You know, I’m on unemployment, so I can kind of do that thing where I can start on a commission and still get some unemployment until this ramps up. And sure enough, it took off, and I was able to get off of unemployment a lot sooner than I thought I

Brian Davis 13:55
would. Wow. So how would the, how would you contribute the that taking off? Like, what was it that you did?

Bill Saunders 14:03
It was, it was all determination. At the time, I was dating, well, now my wife, but I was dating her, and so I kind of had, you know, this, I have to prove to her that I can be, you know, a useful, productive member of society. I have to prove to her that I can be a breadwinner. I have to prove to myself that I can do this, and we’ll see where it goes.

Brian Davis 14:23
So, like, what? What did that? What did that look like? You know, you learn about the opportunity, you sign up for it, right? And then how does that translate into productive work like? So what did, what did your daily activities look?

Bill Saunders 14:35
Okay, so daily activities, what? First it was, hey, you know what? I’m gonna sit on my couch. I’m gonna have ESPN news on mute, and I’ll make phone calls and see what happens. And I’ll see what happens when nothing, there was nothing happening. Yeah, who are you? Who are you calling? Random people like we

Brian Davis 14:51
had, we open the phone book, sign up, basically. So that were they? Were they also, when you signed

Bill Saunders 14:55
up, they were giving them, providing us some leads. But you know, a lot of the leads were for. Fake names. There’s a lot of sifting through of them, and it was one of those things that I wasn’t good at calling people, mostly because I hated the now, I hated all that. I decided about a month into it, I said, You know what? I’m done with it. I’m done with the sitting at home and treating this as a side job. I need to treat this as a real job. So I suited up every day in a suit and tie and went into the office and had a little booth that I rented for, I think, 100 bucks a month, and would make calls and would and would do the activities necessary to get things done. I also learned of a group called BNI at the time, which I became, still a big member of today, which is a networking organization. And I learned from BNI that I am very good face to face, very good person to person. Not good going out and doing sort of the mass shotgun approach, but very good at getting to know you know who you are working with, you building that relationship so that now you feel comfortable referring me out. And so word of mouth marketing became my jam. That was where I was going to live. So like I said, I did that. 2009 2010 comes around. My boss takes notice of my work and says, Hey, we want you to, you know, become a sales leader and manage a team, and you’ll get overrides on the team. Fantastic. One problem. You got to quit football, because I need you here during those hours that you’d be coaching. So I made the phone call that I didn’t want to make, which was to coach cable. You know, a lot of you haven’t figured out yet, it’s pretty, pretty famous football coach, and I reached out to him, and I said, Coach, I have a dilemma. He goes, What’s the dilemma? So I just got promoted at my job. He goes, that’s fantastic. Well, if I get promoted, then I can’t coach football. And he said, Okay, Billy, let’s sit this down and let’s write this down on paper. What are you making as a coach? I said, right now, I’m making 3000 a year. He goes, What’s this job going to pay you? I said, it’s going to pay me 100,000 a year minimum. He goes, Billy, you didn’t call me for $97,000 and I said, Coach. Coaching is my passion. It’s what I’ve always wanted to do. It’s where I’ve lived. And he goes, Billy, it’ll be there for you, trust me, it’ll be there for you when you’re ready for it, it’ll come back. But for now, you now have a fiance. You need to take care of her and your future family, he goes, I’ll still be here, stay in contact with me and all that. And sure enough, to this day, I’ve been in contact with him. You know, we taught, you know, probably two or three times a year. So I left football and started doing this thing. And in 2014 things were going great, but the company that was with the boss, who had been my boss forever, and two other sales managers had decided they were going to go off and start their own company, I was at a position where I had some stock options, if I waited around for a couple of years that I couldn’t or till the end of that year, I should say that I couldn’t really move at that time. And they said, well, it’s fine, you know, most likely they’re going to end up giving you this agency. And I’m like, Oh, that’s fantastic. I’ll be a much better position. Well, the day, we had the conversation of what was going to happen with the territory VP. The territory VP said, No, you’re lucky. We’re even keeping you on as a sales manager at this time. We’re going in a completely different direction. And I said, Well, wait a minute. I’ve been loyal to you guys. I’m not going with them. What are you talking about? As well, your numbers are down. So when my numbers are down for a million different reasons, one, my team got smaller, you know. Two, that a lot of them are going over there and all that stuff. And so I left that meeting feeling very, very irritated and wondering what my next step was going to

Brian Davis 18:34
be. Was it was this leadership that had been a part of the company, or was this, it’s leadership

Bill Saunders 18:38
that had been a part of the company, but I never had direct dealings with them, okay, you know, they had always dealt directly with with our boss, and kind of filtered information that way, yeah. But it was, you know, one of those things where I got that word, and that word to me was, start looking for another job, because this is not going to be your place. So I left that meeting really pissed off at an office down the hall, and I walk back into my office and sitting there on my desk, I kid you not, as an advertisement to open up a nationwide insurance agency offering a $15,000 signing bonus and all that stuff. And I’m like, how the hell this has to be like whatever. So So I immediately there was no there was just an email to respond to. So I shoot an email, and me, being the stubborn, persistent person that I am, says email is not good enough. You know, who is this? And so I ended up just Googling the email address. Yeah, from googling the email address, I found out who sent it. Went to LinkedIn, when LinkedIn was still the thing, went to LinkedIn, found out who this person was then got into a company directory, found her phone number, and called her, and she goes, You are the first person that I’ve ever sent one of these things to that has ever actually taken the time to call me and I said I knew you weren’t going to respond to an email, because you get a million of them. So how do I so she’s hooked it up, got into a meeting. Uh, with my future sales manager in Calabasas. So went out, met with her, and that started a six month recruitment process, basically, I think it was April or May of 2014 and by November of 2014 I’m signed up, ready to go, and I’m opening my office. What does that recruitment process look like? Well, one, they wanted to make sure that was financially viable to do that. And like I said, I had stock from that company. I was able to utilize and cash in that stock to basically invest into this. They wanted to make sure that I had that was setting up my office in a in a profitable place for them. When we were looking at location, I’m like, Look, I got my BNI group in Burbank. I’m really good in Burbank. She said, Don’t go there. We’re not profitable. I said, Okay, well, I’m living in Simi Valley. She goes, go there. We’re profitable. And I said, Great. So that was kind of the process and, you know, setting up pro formas and doing all that stuff and showing what it was going to take to get up and running. They offered me a very sweet package where they basically salaried me for two years with sort of a ramp down in money every month. So start off great money and kind of ramp down until I could build my agency to where they wanted to be the whole time they’re hanging over your head. This is your contract. This is the amount that you have to hit. If you don’t hit it, we will terminate you. So it was a risk, you know, not saying it wasn’t a risk, but it was a risk. And again, me being the stupid person that I am, said, Well, if you print these numbers down on paper, then people can do these. And if, then, if people can do them, then I can do them. I went in with that mindset. To say I struggled at the beginning would be an understatement, because I didn’t have any property in casual insurance. I only done health insurance. So I had to start from ground zero and build my book of business with home and auto insurance in ways that I didn’t. I thought I could parlay my my health insurance business in there, but problem was, they were all Burbank clients, and like we said, we weren’t profitable out there. So that didn’t really work. So so really had to start from ground zero. Got involved with the Chamber almost immediately. You know, I think it was January of 2015, I was a member of the chamber, and knew that, you know, living in Simi Valley, owning a home in Simi Valley, this was going to be my jam. This is what I was going to do, was I’m going to build and I’m going to make this community my community. And one of the things that I think goes really sort of under the radar with a lot of people. I don’t have any competitors in this space. I have, I have other people who I work with, and, you know, there are, look, there’s a million insurance companies here in Simi Valley, you know, and that, I will tell you that some of my best friends and some of the people who I work closely with the most are people of competing insurance companies. And it’s because we can bounce ideas off of each other. It’s because, even though I might have a client go over to somebody else, or they might have a client come over to me, we have a relationship where, like, Hey, by the way, this person is going to call you, they’re leaving me because they’re not happy with something I did. Or, you know, I can’t offer this anymore. If you can offer this, please take them, because I want them with somebody who I know and will trust. And it’s all goes back to that relationship building that I have with my clients. Did it? Did it

Brian Davis 23:07
start off that way, like when you originally got into got into Simi Valley. I mean, you entered into this space, there was probably already a number of existing, successful insurance agencies. Did it start off that way, where it was kind of like a community collaboration type of thing, or it started,

Bill Saunders 23:27
it started out by me saying, I got to be know everybody. I have to know who I’m dealing with in this town, who’s there, what’s there. And, you know, it’s interesting, because I knew I knew, and still know today, see me to be a very small town. As a matter of fact, we were talking this before we started. Simi is an interesting place in that what I have found in the 10 years that I’ve run business here is the people that stay in Simi Valley are mostly the business owners. You know, a lot of people who are working nine to fives are sleeping here. It’s a bedroom community, and then are going elsewhere for work. So because of that, I wanted to know who the mover and shakers were, who were the ones, not necessarily that had the loudest voices in town, but who were the ones that actually got things done. That led me right away to the chamber. I knew that we had a really good chamber here, one that advocates for people here, it was probably a year later that I joined the leadership program. What year 2016 awesome. 2016 and that’s where everything took off, for me, to be honest with you, because in with that leadership, you get to meet all the movers and shakers in town. And one of the things that happened randomly was there were a couple people from a rotary club in our in our group, and they wanted to start a Beer Fest. And I said, Well, I like beer, and I’d love to be a part of getting something like that off the ground. How do we do that? So I joined the rotary and, you know, two years later, we have a Beer Fest, and it’s one that I take a lot of pride in, in managing. You know, pretty much every year I’ve been a chair or a co chair, every. A year, except for one, the one year I wasn’t was when I was president of the Rotary Club. So it’s one of those things that I take great pride in that. But by doing that and being that involved with Rotary you get to meet more and more people. I keep going back to meeting and relationships. One thing that I really hang my hat on in my business is when that phone rings, if it’s a client of mine, nine times out of 10, I already know who they are and when I like, I hired a new associate about two years ago, and the first thing she said to me is, she goes bill every time someone calls, you know exactly who they are. And I said, because I’ve met them, because you know, either over the phone or in person, but I’ve dealt with them. I know their story. I’ve I’ve learned their story, and that’s what I want to be. I want to be doesn’t matter how many clients I have. I need to know who they are my name, so that way, when they call, they know that they’re not just another number on the wall. They know that I’m actually thinking about them and what’s going on. So back to the whole question of insurance and getting into that, if you remember from way back my story with Stanford, there was a guy that I mentioned by the name of Andy Sinclair. Andy Sinclair was a center at Stanford and ended up as a free agent, undrafted free agent, with the San Francisco 40 Niners, and he still has his last check framed in his office. Andy opened a farmer’s agency back in 1989 so when I started looking into the nationwide program, first call I made was to Andy, because Andy was my parents insurance agent. Andy was someone who we had stayed in contact with through the years. Andy is a really, really close personal friend of ours and family friend. And you know, every year, this is the first year we did them, and every year my dad and I go back up to Stanford for one game, and Andy sits in our section. We see him. I go to his tailgate and all that stuff, and get to watch his kids grow up. By the way, his son might be getting drafted in the NFL this year as a linebacker out of Stanford. So go Tristan. But you know, we, we’ve bounced through everything as far as the current market, and we can definitely talk about the current market of insurance. We can talk about, you know, what, you know, what we did, how we, you know, how to structure my business, you know. Andy was one at the very beginning. He said, If you’re going to do it, it’s a great deal. He looked at the contract. He said, This is a really good contract for you to be in. But let’s, let’s talk strategy and having a stand Stanford educated person talking strategy with you in the business that you’re going into was absolutely, I mean, one it was mind numbing, because it’s like he knows so much, and it’s, you know, I’m trying to drink as much of it in, but it’s invaluable, because here’s somebody who cares about me. Again, he’s with farmers. I was with nationwide rival companies. But again, he’s given me all the advice that I need, having been in the business at that time, 30 years. And here I am starting out, and he’s going back to when he started out, saying, here’s how we do this. So it was really cool to have that kind of, you know, thing. And you know, we still talk, by the way, about four or five times a year, you know, and especially in this climate, we’re talking all the time like, Hey, do you have a market for this? Do you have a market for that? How can I help you here? Really, really good stuff. So that’s kind of that. And then just to wrap everything up, full circle, two years ago, my son started playing football for the Simi Valley Bulldogs, so I got called in to coach his team, and it ignited a little bit of a flame that I didn’t know was there about this time last year, I was over at Moorpark high and was talking, not even knowing I was talking to their head football coach. I was in there to do some financial class for his for his econ students in the class. I talked to him about the coaching and stuff like that, and he goes, would you want to coach here? And I said, Don’t tempt me. He goes, Oh, I’m tempting you. And so this year, I actually jumped on board with more part, you know, assisting with the offensive line. You know, the offensive line coach there is a phenomenal guy, you know, John Kidder, who played at UCLA and won a couple of Rose bowls. Really, really, really smart coach. And it was kind of nice for me to be able to take a back seat and watch him do what he does and just sort of help him with with that. But it was funny because my wife said, you know, what are you thinking? You know, he said, this coaching thing might only be a one year thing. And I said, hon, I gotta be honest with you, this is some of the most fun I’ve ever had, like, I can’t believe how much I missed this. Like, it just, I mean, the fire is just raging inside of me to to go back and do it. And I said, look, the business is doing well. I’m not taking any time away from that, you know. And now I get an opportunity to coach football again. And sure enough, caves was right, 15 years later when he said, you know, football will be there when you’re ready for it and when it’s ready for you. And sure enough, it is so really kind of cool to kind of wrap it all together and take advice from the past and be able to put it into into the future. So I

Brian Davis 29:52
think that’s one of the themes that you know, like as you’ve been sharing your story, which is a really incredible story. One of the things that I that I see, is the just. The value of mentorship, you know. Like, it seems like you’ve had people in pivotal points of your life and your journey that have been able to speak into you, yes, you know, and then you’ve been able to act on that, yes, yeah, and be in a much better position than if you had not, right? So, like, have you taken that, and are you now kind of putting that into practice.

Bill Saunders 30:22
One of the things, and I’ve got to be way better at it, you know, I like to talk, you know, but it’s kind of the Be quiet and listen, because you learn so much more. And it was really great to put that in practice this year on the football field, because, you know, there was somebody there who I respect him to the fullest because of what he knows and because of what he’s done, but to be able to listen and see what he does, I learned so much from that, and really put me in a into a place where I’m like, oh, yeah, that’s that makes so much sense. And, you know, be able to slowly and gradually get in there and then be able to talk to him on the side and say, Hey, why did you do this? Or, you know, what are you seeing here? You know, it got to the point where we just started feeding off of each other as the season went along. You know, really good, really good. But there’s, yeah, they’re just never, you know, one, never look a gift horse in the mouth. But two, and more importantly, don’t ever forget that the person that you’re sitting across from could give you the best piece of advice that you’ve ever had and you weren’t expecting it. There are people that, of course, you respect and that you know and you’ll listen to everything that they say, but there are a lot of other people, and maybe they don’t think the same way as you, or maybe they’re doing something completely different from you, but if you take time to really listen to what they’re telling you, there might be a nugget in there that you can put in your back pocket for 15 years and then pull it out and go, Oh, I remember this. And, yes, this is really important. A great story with that was when I was in college, I told you I wasn’t great student. School was not for me. Yeah, it’s not for everybody. And after my first year, first semester, no, first year, after my first year, I came home for the summer, I was placed on accurate information because my great GPA had dropped below a 2.0

Brian Davis 32:04
was it because, like, a lack of interest? Was it?

Bill Saunders 32:07
It was, yes, it was school. Didn’t interest me. You know, you put me, you put me down in front of, in front of, you know, 12 or two football players, and tell me to do whatever. I’ll figure it out and I’ll analyze it. But you sit me down and ask me, in what year did the Battle of 1812 happen? I’m not gonna, you know. I mean, obviously 1812 but you know,

Brian Davis 32:27
that’s what they have. They have

Bill Saunders 32:29
us believe. But it was one of those things that, you know, I’m on academic probation now, and the school gave me two options. I said. Option one, you go back for the fall and you have one semester get great up above a 2.0 where we kick you out. Option two is take a year off, and then you have a year to make it up. And I looked my parents both in the eye, and I said, If I don’t go back this fall, I will never go back. I know myself. I won’t ever do it. I said, trust me, please. You know I’m going to go back and I’m going to do it. So when I left the home to head back to school, my mom had given me this box, and it was, like, a little, I don’t know, jewelry box. You open it up and there’s the green felt inside of it, or something like that. Okay, yeah, and on the outside of the box, she had written the secret to success. When I opened it up, it was one word. It just said, work. And I got really mad when I saw it the first time. Like, really? Like, duh. Like, and I and I just kind of threw it off to the side. What was funny was, and I told my mom this years later, I said that box went on every single road trip that we ever had. That box stayed with me, and I’m so mad that I lost it in one of my moves. She’s like, I make another one. I’m like, you. I’m sure you could, but it’s not the same, like that. Debug that box. I mean, really. And it just, it just stuck with me, and it was a way that, you know, here’s mom trying to do something helpful, that at the time, I was like, Oh, it’s just mom being mom, like, you know, whatever. But here it was, you know, hell, we’re going to play the University of Nebraska, and I’m carrying this box with me. We go to Hawaii to play, you know, play against Oregon in the Aloha bowl. Here comes this box with me, you know, like this box traveled everywhere with me. And every game, every Friday night before the game, I would look at that box, I would open that box, and I would ask myself, did I do the work that I needed to this week to ensure we have a good day on Saturday. And that’s how I’ve lived my life. You know, when I when I come into Fridays during the week. Now, did I do enough? Did I work hard enough this week to enjoy my weekend? Yeah? And you know, that’s really where that came from. So, yeah,

Brian Davis 34:34
thank Thank you, mom. Yeah, thanks mom.

Bill Saunders 34:38
She knew what she was doing, you know, and it’s great. Like, my wife says she’s one of my favorite people. So, yeah,

Brian Davis 34:46
no, that’s awesome, man, I can see the I can see the passion as you’re sharing that story. Yeah, that’s incredible. So like, you had people, you had your mom, you had these coaches, you had people that were speaking into your life, you know, that were, um. Um, that were, they were serving you in a way that was making sure that that you had your best outcome, even though it was kind of costing them, right? You know, it was, it wasn’t for their own gain, right? Has that kind of informed the way that you now approach your relationships with your customers, right? Yeah, right, yeah. And it kind of sounds like it does Yes, like, Yeah. Kind of unpacked out a little bit.

Bill Saunders 35:24
There’s more than one way to skin account, and I realize I use a lot of a lot of, you know, what do they call like, you know, similes to kind of, or sayings to get to where I’m going. And I think that’s the football in me. But no two customers are the same. And if you don’t understand their story. You can’t understand their solution. And you know, so when somebody calls me even today, you know, when you know, I’m sure we’ll get into, you know, the difficulties writing insurance. But you know, it doesn’t matter if I can write everything, or there’s not many markets open, or whatever it is, the first question when someone says, you know, hey, I need new insurance. Why are you looking? What is the why? I need to know your why, because then I know how to approach because, if you’re looking, because you you need to save money. And I’m talking about the bells and whistles and the features and all that stuff we’ve missed completely. Even if this ends up being a better product for you, it’s it’s worse because I didn’t match what you needed. So the very first question I always ask is, why are you looking, you know, and a lot of times say, Well, I want to save some money. And I’ll follow that up with, you know is that the only reason that you’re looking because most people don’t wake up on a Tuesday morning and say, Hey, I’m going to call around and spend three hours calling insurance companies trying to find a better rate. What happened, you know? Oh, I had a claim that wasn’t covered. Oh, you know, my insurance guy, I’ve been trying to reach him. He hasn’t called me back. Oh, I was talking to my neighbor. They went over to you. They were so happy with their service, I wanted to see what you could offer me. And so that’s really what it was. And you know, when I said at the beginning of the call, of the of the podcast, I hate getting told no on the phone. I’m calling people. I’m okay being told no face to face, I’m okay if this doesn’t work. And a lot of times I’ll reach that, that conclusion before you even do and I’ll be able to shift you to where you need to go. But I want to be seen as someone who’s honest, as someone who you know is more going to show you how the coverage works and why we’re doing I want to show you the why behind just doing it and that that I think comes from my coaching background, you know, I can tell you, you know, just go out there and block that guy, okay, but you need to know, why are we blocking the guy? Why are we blocking the guy that way? What happens if I miss that guy? And how do I block that guy? So I want to take that into into insurance, right? Why do we want this coverage? How do we get to that coverage? What happens we don’t have that coverage? And what, what kind of strategies can we utilize to get to that coverage without breaking the bank? So that that’s kind of what I do with my clients,

Brian Davis 38:01
yes, really making sure that they understand. Yes, you know the purpose behind everything, right? Like, instead of just like, what it is that we have to do, but it also seems like you care, like, a great deal, and as as I have heard people talk about you, I’ve read reviews that people have left, two of the common words that I see are character and integrity. Yes, why is that an important part of your service to your customers?

Bill Saunders 38:28
So I’ll pull the curtain back a little bit. Insurance Agents, we make our money off of what’s called residual income. We get commission every time that you pay your premium. We get a commission off of it. Okay, it is much easier to keep a client than it is to go out and get a new client. It caught. The costs are way lower for me to retain than it is to go out and get new okay, if I care, and it’s not just showing that you care. You have to really care. You have to really care that you’re putting them in the right spot. And by doing that, you know, I’m going to maintain a long term client so that when things happen, that we need to move you from one insurance company to another insurance company. You know that I still have your best interests in mind. You know that I’m really worrying about this because the worst call that I can make, it’s much easier for me to tell you, No, you’re not going to be covered on that now. Yeah, if that fire comes through, and we didn’t have fire protection on your home, that is a much worse conversation to have, sorry, your million dollar home that you’ve worked your entire life to have went up in flames. You don’t have coverage for that. I don’t want to make that call at all. So maybe it’s a little bit selfish to see for me to say, I don’t want to make that call, but in order for me to protect my selfishness, I need to care for you now, and I need to make sure that you understand what you’ve got, how you got it, why you got it, and why you know why it’s important to you. And it’s only important to you if you care about it. So if you don’t care about. It, then, why are we even talking about this coverage, you know, and why are we talking about certain things? But I want to know what it is that makes you turn what? Why is it that you want that coverage? And it almost becomes a you sell me on why you need this, as opposed to me selling you because nobody wants to use car salesman. Yeah, no. And, and, you know, I’ve made mistakes in my career, where I’ve hired people who are very aggressive, aggressive sales people. And mind you, they they bring in business. But I noticed that business turned over quite a bit. And I don’t want that. I want people because, again, I’ve built this business on word of mouth. I’ve built this business on recommendations, if I don’t care for you, then why would you even care to tell the next person what I can do to help you out. So it really is, you know, comes from a place of compassion and caring and understanding. And you know, in this insurance market sucks right now, and I, my heart goes out to everybody, including myself, who’s in this position of having, of having to write policies where I’m like, looking at it and it’s almost like I have to hold my nose and write it, because it’s all that’s there. And, you know, I try to empathize with people, and you know, I tell them, Look, if you can go find something that’s better, by all means, do it. I had a client just last week who, you know, went out and, you know, had an opportunity to go somewhere else. And I said, No. I said, You know what, I’ve known you for a long time, and I would be remiss if I didn’t tell you that that place is better, and you know, it’s better, you know, for a bunch of different reasons, but most importantly, you feel it’s better and and that to me, if you’re comfortable going over there and you feel better being over there, by all means, do it. You know, when the tables turn and the tides turn and there’s more stuff on the table that I can write, I know that I can pick up the phone and call you and say, Hey, this has happened. Would you like to come back? You know, it’s not a forever goodbye, it’s it’s for now. And I’m more than willing to let people go. And I’ll even say, hey, look, if that agent needs something, some information from me, have them reach out to me, please, and I’ll give it to them. I’m not going to hold them up, and I’m not going to hold you up because, you know, look, there are many games that insurance agents can play to to either delay or to or to make it really hard to move. And I just am not that person, you know, I want to. I want to, especially if you and I have already had that conversation where, where it’s it’s time to make that move. Well, then let me help you make that move as easy as possible. Because at the end of the day, are you going to refer yourself to who you’re with? Now are you going to go, you know, what? You should go, reach back out to Bill. He always took care of me, you know? And that’s, that’s what I want. I want everyone who leaves me to leave with that. Hey, it’s not forever. You know, you didn’t do anything wrong. I didn’t do anything wrong. It’s just the time, and then you’ll be there to come back so that, that’s why caring means so much to me. That’s That’s

Brian Davis 42:53
incredible. Tell us a little bit about you know, I have a couple of friends and acquaintances that you know, are in the insurance industry, and you know, as I’ve been talking to them about what’s been going on the past handful of years and how crazy things have been getting, I’d love to know just your perspective on what’s going on and how it is that you are helping your clients kind of navigate that and deal with that. So, so I’ll answer

Bill Saunders 43:19
the second part of the question first, and then I’ll kind of get into what’s going on and all that stuff. I want to be a resource for my clients, and I want to be a resource for people who aren’t my clients. So right now, I’m telling everybody exactly what I’m seeing in the marketplace. I’m telling people what I’ve seen, what I’ve heard, what I’ve known. You know, I’ve had an opportunity to meet with the insurance commissioner’s office. I thought I was going to meet with the insurance commissioner. That’s a story for another day, but I’ve met with the with his office at least a couple of times. I’ve gotten some good information, some good insights into into what’s going on. And so I’m telling people call me not to get a quote, because right now, if you’re looking to shift for price, it’s the wrong market, and you’re just gonna spin your wheels. Okay, if you’re forced to get new insurance, then let’s look. But otherwise, stay where you’re at right now, because it is an awful, awful desert out there. And this started really back for me. It started back right around 2020, and the reason it started back then was because nationwide made the decision back in 2019 2018 somewhere in there that they were going to kick every single agent that they had from exclusive to independent, which meant that now we could represent other carriers. And it was a great it was a great idea. Well, that move came on July 120 20. So those of you that remember exactly where we were on July 120, 20, most of us were still in our homes. So now here I am again starting out new to try and build relationships with new carriers. Okay, well, something else was happening during COVID That that went under the radar that people weren’t recognizing as much, and that was there was a big battle brewing between the insurance commissioner. Or and the insurance companies, and the Insurance Commission was really trying to force the insurance company’s hands on giving rebates to the clients, to their customers, because, hey, they’re not on the road as much. You know, there’s less accidents on the road. Insurance companies, you’re making way too much money in in light of the lockdowns and all this stuff, in light of the lockdowns all that, and also because, hey, look, people are locked down. They need savings. Insurance companies handled that very differently from company to company. Some people gave a whopping 50 bucks back. Some companies gave more back. Some companies gave less back. But at the end of the day, there wasn’t a lot of movement that was done during that time, okay? And the reasoning given by the insurance companies. I gotta be careful how I say things, because I want to make sure that when I’m truthful, and two, I want to try to keep this as a political as possible, because I don’t want anyone knowing my politics. That’s one of the big things that I have mostly because, you know, I just it doesn’t need to be said. But insurance companies said that, look, while there were less accidents on the road. Okay? Parts became fewer and farther between to come by, so the cost to repair went up. Cars were sitting in a shop for 3045, days. The insurance company was paying storage fees for the cars. During that time, homes were still, you know, having their issues, the water leaks and all that stuff. Okay? So that the rate and the cost of goods and services on, you know, on plywood and stuff like that, was going through the roof. So insurance companies margins started to shrink, okay? Well, the insurance commissioner said, we’re not allowing any rate increases in 2020 we’re not allowing any rate increases in 2021 in 2022 the insurance company said, hey, look, we don’t have rate increases in three years now. We need a rate increase. And the insurance commissioner said, Look, you didn’t do enough for your clients during the lockdown. I’m not going to approve a rate increase now. So that was 2023 okay. And so everyone’s aware, I guess I should back up a little bit. Insurance companies can always go for less than a 7% rate increase without going through the commissioner’s office. The commissioner still has to approve it, but they can go for less than seven. If they go for seven or more, it creates a whole new scenario where they have to go in from a consumer watchdog group, which the insurance companies have to pay for. They have to go through there’s a bunch of different regulations and processes of that fall that cost the insurance companies more. So for years, the insurance companies always took their 6.9% 6.9 6.9 6.9 but now we’re into 2023, and the insurance commissioner is still saying, No, we’re not going to allow any rate increases. And the insurance companies are like, well, now we have to take our 20 25% rates. So we’re going to go through these consumer watchdog groups, and we’re going to go to battle and we’re going to see it. But by the way, Mr. Insurance Commissioner, we’re now going to take our ball and go home and let you figure it out. What do you mean by that? We are now going to stop writing insurance coverage. So in 2023 we saw insurance companies start playing some really crazy games nationwide. Was the first one that I saw do it. And what they did was they said, Okay, look, you want a home or an auto policy? Fantastic. You’re going to submit a quote. Okay, we’re going to take two weeks. You’re going to go get all this information that we need. We need the age of the house. We need a photo of your dog to make sure it’s not a pit ball. Or, you know, we need to, you know, see your employment address. We need to see. There was a litany of things that you need, that they needed to see. Okay, once you got that all in, you had to wait two weeks for them to come back and give you a quote or tell you no, or when they did in about 50% of the time, oh, you’re missing a piece of information. We still need this. And by the way, that starts your your 14 day window over. So they did that. And so basically they stopped writing coverage. And at that time I said, like, it’s not even worth going through nationwide, you know? So we, we stopped promoting nationwide. At that moment, then other insurance companies started doing things, Hey, Bill, we know that you’re appointed with us. We’re going to put you on what’s called temporary binding restriction. You’re not allowed to bind a policy. So, so we, as a carrier, we’re not going to stop selling it, but, but you as an agent cannot promote it and cannot sell it and cannot get commission on it. So just, you know, go, go elsewhere. So this started happening. This started happening. This started happening. And then in the summer of 2023 nationwide sent me a Dear John letter. Now, mind you, I’ve been with nationwide Since 2014 so this is nine years at this point, and they sent me a letter and said, Hey, by the way, due to, you know, not, not for any fault of your own, but we are going to cancel your agency. Wow. And and with that means that all your you need to start moving your clients from nationwide, because we want off of all these policies. And they did this to me and about 400 other agents in California or agencies. And I went, Well, look, guys, I’m exclusive. My biggest book of business is with you guys like, what are you what are you thinking? What are you doing? Nope. Sorry. And just know that in the letter, it’s just going to say not for cause. So, so yeah, so then this is again where I’ve got to get a little bit careful as to what I say and word it in the right way. But for me, at least, they don’t want business in California through me. So, so now we’re in a situation where I don’t have companies writing, and now I’ve got companies starting to terminate me. So they’ve been one that has terminated me. Another one has and then binding restrictions with other carriers. So really, the standard homeowners insurance marketplace, I don’t have any carriers that are really writing right now. I have one that is writing in Simi Valley. They are only writing homes that are less than 30 years old, so 1995 or newer, without any claims, perfect, clean, squeaky business, and not near their guidelines of wildfire, yeah, okay, which is a whole nother undertaking auto. I again, have one carrier that is writing, and they’re writing pretty liberally right now. So that’s pretty good, and that’s been that’s been nice, but most insurance companies are not writing. State Farm was one of the last pull out of the game. They’re the biggest carrier in the game to pull out in California. And that’s when people’s eyes started waking up, going, oh, wait a minute, this isn’t just nationwide and farmers pulling out. This is State Farm now telling us, no, they’re not writing in California. And so now the insurance commissioner is starting to get heat from his own party. The insurance commissioner is an elected position, by the way, and his own party is now telling you, hey, look, man, this has gone on long enough you got to figure this out and figure out what’s going on. So this year, they had a whole slew of public hearings. They’ve started working with the insurance companies. They’re at the negotiating table as we speak, trying to figure out the best way to move forward with this. So what does that look like? Well, one, it’s the government, so it’s going to take a while, as always, as always. So don’t expect anything anytime soon. I thought at the beginning of the year of 2024 that we’d be in a position by now where we’d start seeing a lot more light than we do. There is light, but it’s very small. So now I’m saying, by the end of next year, hopefully, you know, the optimist in me says, By the middle of next year, we’re going to start seeing some carriers come back into the game, because some have had rate increases approved, and they’re holding off waiting for other insurance companies to come on board, because they don’t want to be the ones caught holding the purse, so to speak. So I think by the end of next year, the insurance companies, for the most part, will be back and it will be back to business as usual, unfortunately for us as the consumer, that means that rates aren’t going to go up the day of the of the $100

you know, auto insurance a month plan is probably gone. Okay? They’re not going to be around much. You know, homeowners is ugly. My own personal home, I had to move it away from nationwide. This year I saw mine went up 300% you know, and, and, you know, unfortunately, that’s not an anomaly. There are, there are a lot, then that’s why I’m telling people, don’t shop for price. It’s not gonna, it’s not gonna make much sense to shop for price. But I do have a carrier now. It is a non standard carrier, meaning that they are not bound by the regulations of California, but it is backed by Lloyds of London. So, you know, they have good financial strength that is writing in California, and they’re writing a lot, and they’ve been a really good kind of bridge for me, because it’s one of those we’re doing things so as on a year to year basis, with, with, especially with homeowners insurance, the homeowners insurance company that you’re with this year, you know, if it’s one of these non standard, I don’t want you on it next year. You know? Why not? Because it’s non standard, the coverage is not as good as matter of fact, California requires that we get 3d clients before we can even promote them. So me and three carriers have to say no, which right now is very easy because nobody is writing. But also, when it’s non standard, they can do things a little bit differently, sort of, in terms of the sub limits of coverage and how they offer coverage and and all that. And they’re and they’re expensive policies, to be honest with you. Like, for instance, like I said, mine tripled. Well, if I can get back onto a standard policy, my rates gonna go down. And I’m gonna feel like, Oh, my rate went down. Well, it’s not gonna go down to where it was. You know, look, I was at $1,300 a year for my home. That was fantastic. I’m never gonna see 1300 again. But I’ll tell you what, if it goes to 2400 I want to feel like I’m saving a bunch of money. So so, you know, that’s the way we have to look at it’s kind of like gas prices. They’re going to rock it up, and then they’re going to feather down. But it’s, it’s going to be, it’s going to be a haul. If your insurance company has not non renewed you, if they’re continuing to renew you do it, if they’re asking you to jump through some hoops, I know you want to call and definitely call me, because I can give you some advice on that, but nine times out of 10 the recommendation is is going to be to jump through those hoops, because it’s going to save you the money in the long run. Now, if they’re asking you to replace a whole roof, and they’re giving you two weeks to do it, then definitely call me. We can see what we can do to move you on that one. Because, you know, that’s going to be a lot of money that you probably don’t have built up. But if it’s little things like, like, brush clearance, do it. Just do it. So, you know, like I said, there are companies that have gotten their rate increases. There are companies that are still waiting. There are other companies that are starting to dabble in coming back on, you know, again, we’re in wait and see mode. I kind of feel like we’re in the eye of the storm right now. The worst has come through, but there’s still the back end to come, you know, and what’s that going to look like, you know, I’ve told everybody. I kind of feel a little bit like Forrest Gump, you know, when, when all this, when all this, hit the fan? I literally went into the foxhole and let the bullets fly overhead. To me, that was like the hurricane and forest guilt. Okay, couldn’t catch shrimp, so I’m just going to kind of lay low and see what happens. Now, the hurricane is coming through, and a lot of insurance agencies have either moved or sold or, you know, agents have gotten out of the market. Because it’s been so miserable, I’ve been able to, it’s going to pivot my business to more commercial stuff, which has kept me afloat. And better than a float I’m doing, I’m doing great. But when this storm actually fully passes, and the insurance companies come back, it’s going to be like Forrest Gump and the shrimp is going to be easy, and it’s going to be really easy to go out there and find places for people. And, you know, it’ll be, it’ll be what we’re so sick of hearing, but it will be the new normal, you know, as to what it is. So, like I said, my job now is to educate people on what is going on. My job after the storm will be then to Okay, now we can move you into the right place. We move you into the piece. So if we have to move you, we’re kind of moving you off to the side for right now, into a place that’s just kind of a placeholder, and then we’ll move you into the real deal when we get there. Yeah, so, so right now it’s just kind of transitional. Right now, it’s very transitional. Stay where you’re at, if you if you can stay where you’re at and and don’t look back and don’t wait six hours on the phone, calling 100 people, because everybody’s going to tell you the same thing. Where I try to, again, differentiate myself, is I hope I’m calling number one or two, because then I can give you all the information and tell you you can stop your search now and stay where you’re at, and I don’t get any commission if you stay where you’re at, yeah, I get commission off what I sell you. So if I’m telling you to stay where you’re at, there’s, there’s a good reason for it. And again, it’s that for me, telling you to stay where you’re at is to build that trust.

Brian Davis 57:24
So what did you end up doing with your book of business? So you had to move it

Bill Saunders 57:28
so nationwide. Gave me an opportunity with the homes to appeal for a for a one year and the first half of the year, they were very easy on the appeal process, but then they realized they were being too easy on the appeal process.

Brian Davis 57:41
So was it like, every time a renewal would come up, you would have to appeal to keep it with them. I would have to

Bill Saunders 57:47
appeal. Six months super easy. Six months super easy. Then all of a form, and then all of a sudden, and literally, it was from one day the next. This worked yesterday. It didn’t work today. And I’m like, What are you talking about? This isn’t working. I just did this for another client. Listen, don’t we change the rules? And you know, then it came down that, oh no, we don’t. Just because they’re not writing in the area doesn’t count anymore. You have to actually get a physical decline. That shows that it was for wildfire. Like, okay, here we go. So, um, so most my clients stay with nationwide last year, which means now I’m having the real conversations with them. Of, hey, we can’t appeal again. We got to get going. But like I said, and that happened with me, I technically could have appealed my own home, and I’m in the middle of see me like I’m I’m as far away from what I would consider fire danger as anybody what insurance companies will tell you, because I’ve had this conversation with underwriters a million times, they’re not worried about the middle of seeming going up in flames. They’re really not. And actually, and I’ve talked to the fire captains out here, the fire science out here shows that fires will go around us. You know, they’ll go over the ridges. They might lick up against wood ranch or lick up against Big Sky, but really it’s going to stay off. So the insurance companies are not worried about the fire coming through, you know, la Avenue. What they are worried about is the smoke damage. And, you know, there’s the smoke damage claims really hurt the insurance companies, because those are, you know, they can be, you know, like I’ve seen, $100,000 smoke claims. Most of them are 15, $20,000 but they keep coming in, they keep coming in, they keep coming in. And that’s what the insurance company is not set up to handle. You know, they’re, they’re set up for the total loss of the big fire. So,

Brian Davis 59:30
yeah, so what smoke damage? So what? What is smoke damage

Bill Saunders 59:33
if there’s a fire, right? And I saw a few of these, not a fire in the house, so brush fire and brush fire around. You know, I saw a couple of these with my Oak Park clients back in the Woolsey fire, where the smoke is so heavy it gets into the vents, it sits the walls. It ruins your clothing, it doesn’t you can’t get rid of it very easily. You’ve got to bring in a remediation company to get it out of there. Those are, those are the big, those are the, what I would call the legitimate. Claims, yeah.

Brian Davis 1:00:00
So it’s not structural damage, it’s it’s something that needs to get cleaned up,

Bill Saunders 1:00:05
right? Exactly? There are a lot of people out there, a lot of attorneys out there, that will say, hey, look, there is a smoke, you know, smoke claim. You can file a smoke claim, and you can get this money, and it’s not going to affect your rates, because it’s a catastrophic loss.

Brian Davis 1:00:17
So are they going through house to house to house, or they’ll fly a plane

Bill Saunders 1:00:20
overhead. We see them in the valley all the time, smoke claims.com. I just promoted them.

Brian Davis 1:00:25
Don’t go there, but they’ll promote it and all

Bill Saunders 1:00:29
that stuff. And that’s where the insurance companies get and so one of the big sticks with the insurance company is in, say, Florida, okay, you have a deductible on your home, okay? And it might be a $5,000 deductible. Mean, you got to pay that out of pocket before the insurance pay. Insurance pays. But they will do something for wind and hail. Will say it’s a 2% deductible. Okay? So that means if it costs, you know, $500,000 to, you know, to rebuild your home, you’re going to pay $10,000 before we kick in for wind and hail. So the insurance companies have said, Hey, can we do that here in California? Can we have their deductible, and then can we have a fire, smoke deductible of 1% 2% something like that, that way that would alleviate those, those those minor losses, 2% of the the value of the home, of the replacement cost of the home, the replacement cost, very good differentiation, because you got to remember, when you look at your home’s value, the land that it’s sitting on is of value. Okay, the even if the home is a total loss, that land is still there, unless you’re on a cliff in Malibu, but that property is still going to be there. So they’re looking at the cost to rebuild your home, not the value of your home. So that’s why a lot of times, you’ll notice your home’s worth 1.3 million. The replacement cost comes in at 600,000 it all has to do with that, and so you want to make sure that your replacement cost is up. You also want to make sure that there’s coverage in there for extended replacement cost, which is usually at 50 to 100% on top of it, to make sure that you’ve got enough to rebuild your home, but it either one to 2% of the replacement cost so that, you know, again, that’s going to get rid of those 15,001 less claims which really shouldn’t be filed anyway. But, you know, the client feels, hey, I got all this money. This is great. I can go, you know, rent all my kitchen now, or whatever they want to do. It’ll eliminate that, and then that’ll alleviate some of the stress off the insurance company. So that’s one of the areas that the insurance companies have been going to the Department of Insurance saying, Hey, can we get this added? The DOI also wants them to write more and what they consider wildfire areas? Well, what is a wildfire area? I’ve asked the ask the department insurance, the Commission’s office, what do you guys consider a fire Well, an area where there could be fire, okay, but that’s pretty much all of California, yeah, but, yeah, but I’m like, Okay, but what? Well, but areas that are more prone to fire. I’m like, Okay, well, then I will give my address and I’ll say, Look, I’m here. Is this a fire area? Well, we haven’t determined the map completely yet, but that’s yeah. So they’re working on it. They’re trying to figure out where they’re coming from. What’s going on? I did ask the commissioner’s office. I point blank. I said, Look, we have California FAIR Plan. Yeah, we have these non standard carriers. Is there any problem with writing with a non standard carrier? And their response was none at all. None at all. Please feel free to write those policies. The truth of the matter is that California FAIR Plan is got way too much in it, then it can pay out. There are too many policies. If there is a big fire that comes through here that that is going to put, you know, put a lot of strain on the FAIR Plan. They might not have enough money to pay it out. And so that’s another reason why I’m keeping people away from the FAIR Plan as best I can. So what is the California FAIR Plan? That’s a really good question. The California FAIR Plan was established as a insurance of last resort. It was meant to be there when somebody couldn’t get insurance on the open market. Okay, it was, it’s been established for many, many years, and what it wasn’t utilized very often. I mean, if you lived in the woods up in Fraser park, you probably had a California FAIR Plan, but if you lived within city limits of a major city, you never thought about the fare plan, because, again, it’s the insurance of last resort, and the way that they fund it is by taking the insurance company, having the insurance companies pay a percentage of their overall premium into this fund, and then they would charge a premium to the consumer, and then that premium, plus the insurance money, would all go into a big pot of money for the state of California, so that if there was a fire, say, in Northern California, doesn’t matter where that money was collected from, that money can all be directed up to that fire to take care. And they were looking at maybe covering one or two homes. What’s happened in the last two years with insurance companies leaving the game now, California FAIR Plan has become a topic of of our daily conversation in the insurance world, and now we’re seeing people go on the California FAIR Plan that have Simi Valley, California, 90 3063, and. 65 zip codes. It’s very, very not what it was intended for. And because of this, we have more people participating in the FAIR Plan than it was ever established for. And so what the fear is is that if there’s a major fire similar to the Camarillo one we had a couple of weeks ago, or the Woolsey fire, or something like that, that there’s going to be too many homes and too many people that are on these policies than what the FAIR Plan has money for. And if that happens, then the big question is, what do they pay out? And how do they pay it out, and how long until you get that money? Because in the insurance world, getting your money after a loss is the difference in everything. You know, if there’s, if there’s a major wildfire that comes through, and my insurance company pays me out today, I can call a contractor today and say, hey, you know you want to come out and rebuild my home. And he’ll say, Yeah, I got nothing else going on. Absolutely. Let’s work out what we can what we can rebuild the home for. Okay, if I don’t get paid out in a week, I call that contract goes, Yeah, I got two or three homes that I’m building. So I’ll get to you after that. If I’m waiting a month or two months, hey, you know what? We’re so busy right now, if you want me to come out, I’m going to charge you a premium for it. And if it’s a year or more, yeah, man, I’m so booked up still. Like, what do you know? What do you want me? So this, this is the problem is, you know, contractors, yeah, it’s getting that money right away really does make a difference in the rebuild process of your home. So that’s another reason why FAIR Plan we want to stay away from. But also, the state and the insurance companies have drilled in us for years. This is the insurance of last resort. Well now it’s turning into the insurance of only resort. And that’s why I was so happy to see a carrier come in that, you know, while they’re non standard, still say, hey, we want to alleviate that. Come over here, because at least we’re backed by Lloyd’s of London, and we’ll be able to get your money quickly, because that’s, that’s where I’m like, Alright, here we go. Let’s

Brian Davis 1:07:03
roll with it. So that’s that’s making a big difference for your your clients. Yeah, that’s awesome, man. So if, if anybody wants to get more information from Bill, if somebody has some insurance questions out there and what, what’s the best way for them to be able to get in contact with so the best

Bill Saunders 1:07:20
way you can always go to my website, www.wj, Saunders insurance.com, insurance is spelled out. You can call me 805-426-4855, well, people there to answer the phone, those are the two best ways to get a hold of me. So again, 805-426-4855, or www.wj, Saunders insurance.com, awesome.

Brian Davis 1:07:41
Awesome. And what would you say to, you know, maybe some young entrepreneurs out there that are thinking about, you know, getting into, I mean, you were talking earlier there, right now, it’s kind of a desert, but, you know, in the next couple of years, like it could turn into quite the bountiful harvest, yeah, What? What? What type of guidance, what type of mentorship, what type of life,

Bill Saunders 1:08:05
I would say, start now. Start, start getting, you know, there’s licensing processes and stuff like that. Go up and get your license if you really want to do this. You know, there, there’s, you know, a lot of times there are companies that are hiring, especially looking for people that are really wanting to get into it and get hungry with it. You know, don’t get discouraged. If an insurance company says, No, we don’t want you right now, or an agency says, No, we don’t have any openings right now. If you’re ready and you’re already licensed and you’re good to go, the moment that this market flips, people are going to be looking to hire right away, because they’re going to want to take advantage of what, of what’s going to come do it. Do your steps, do your training, do your mentoring, you know, talk to talk to those around you. Make sure it’s something that you want to do. If you can start it out as a side job right now, because you still got a full income job, fantastic. You know, if you have to dive in head first, you got to do what you got to do, but don’t look back, you know. Just, just make that jump and go, you know. And you know, don’t hesitate. You know, the more you hesitate, the harder it gets to do things. You know, it’s kind of like going into a cold pool. You know, you’re going to be in that cold pool anyway. Just jump in and get it over with. So just tear the band aid right off. Amen, yep, get it going. But if you, if you have time, you have a full job right now, but it’s something that you want to look into doing. You know, definitely go get licensed and all that. And I would say for entrepreneurship in general, if that’s a move that you want to make, is to entrepreneurship and you have an idea, and it’s, you’re passionate about it, definitely dive in and do it. You know, don’t give up everything for it. But, you know, be if you’re passionate, you know, follow that passion, because that passion is not going to go away. And my big thing was always, I don’t want to look up 10 years ago what, you know, what it could have, should I? I’m glad that I’ve lived my life in such a way that the what a could have shoulda doesn’t exist. And, you know, like the. Ice. It was given to me 15 years ago. You know, if you have to step away from a passion for a little bit, it’ll be there waiting for you, but always, always stay true to yourself and doing it. And if it’s what you really want to do and you’re starting to get some traction with it, by all means, stoke that fire, because it’s really a really awesome thing once it gets up and

Brian Davis 1:10:16
running. Awesome, awesome. Well, thanks so much, Bill. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having this conversation with

Bill Saunders 1:10:21
us. Yeah, not a problem. And, yeah, awesome, man, thanks for having me. Thanks,

Brian Davis 1:10:25
brother. Thank you.